« Bash the Bride - face the Bridegroom | Living Room Privacy Statement »

Slimy Blogging - Open Mike

10 June, 2004 5:45 PM

I'd like to introduce you to a newish blogger. Warren's World certainly got my attention today.

I've never been added to anyone's 'deficient list' before in their blog roll or been accused of being 'as slimy as some of the so called Christian pastors in the U.S.' before. Its definitely one way to get your blog noticed.

I do however appreciate Warren's alerting me in these comments of one of the ads on my site as being inappropriate (I'm sorry to anyone who was offended - the ad was a random ad and has now been removed). The conversation that has resulted has been both interesting and thought provoking.

Here is how Warren started the conversation in my comments...

'When I look further at the sidebar links, I begin to sense a bigger ca$h desire than a God desire. One who truly cares about spreading the good news, doesn't need to worry about the dollars. And why would you choose something so blatantly obvious as cashing in on divorce. It's a sad day.'

To be honest I'm a little offended by some of Warren's comments, but at the same time think its an interesting conversation to have in terms of how people in ministry should earn an income - its a particularly interesting conversation to have for those of us planting small emerging churches. Many of us are exploring alternative ways of making an income, some through tent making businesses, others by working multiple jobs, others through raising support.

Anyway, I'm interested in others thoughts - not so much upon whether I'm 'slimy' or 'deficient' (although I'm open to being told a few home truths) but more about how people in ministry should (and shouldn't) earn an income.

V and I are heading up to Sydney first thing tomorrow for a few days break so consider this an 'open mike' post - have your say, but please be nice to each other.



A question. What business is it of any of your readers to make comment about who or who you do or do not link to?

I've never seen this guy leave a comment here before, if he really knew you and your blog he'd soon realise what a goose he's making of himself.

He is either a naive newbie blogger who needs to learn a thing or two about blogging etiquette, or he is doing this to provoke you and get his blog noticed. Think about it, you are one of the most widely read Christian bloggers going around, to get a link from you is a pretty good way of getting a leg up into the scene. All he needs to do now is add Andrew Jones, Josh Claybourn and Jordon Cooper to his deficient list and he'll be famous.

Sorry, I know you were probably not wanting this type of comment but I thought it needed to be said. Once again you've been most gracious Darren, I wouldn't have had so much patience as you.

Seth » 10 June, 2004 8:35 PM

"It's an interesting conversation to have in terms of how people in ministry should earn an income."

It's kind of freeing to see that all of us are supposed to be in ministry, so the question really isn't different for you than it is for any of us. The problem seems to come when someone seems motivated to do ministry for the money, which sure isn't why most of us got into church leadership. ;)

Darryl » 11 June, 2004 12:00 AM

I went into ministry for the money and the power. Doesn't everyone?


Richard Hall » 11 June, 2004 5:25 AM

Gracious as ever, Darren. Good stuff.

The Lord bless you.

felix » 11 June, 2004 6:16 AM

You're going to Sydney! You mustn't be as poor as you say if you can afford an overseas trip. I think many ministers are slimy and do waste money. Maybe Warren is right.

Alex » 11 June, 2004 6:48 AM

The comments on the other site to me were distateful. I would hope that someone would just come to me and let me know instead of going on the attack.
I try to think the best, instead of automatically assume the worst. I personnaly would leave the googleads up, and then block unappropriate ads, which I doubt come up very often.

Jake » 11 June, 2004 9:38 AM

i wouldnt be worried darren,

this in the blogging industry is called "trolling." if you go after someone you might get a response, sometimes it leads to aome good sibling rivalry, sometimes it leads to their blog getting tonnes of hits, some times it leads to some form of web abuse.

personally re adverts on the internet, ive become numb to them, yahoo had some issues putting wrong ads in christian emails, but i think ive just got so used to them that i pay very little attention to them.

The Other Darren » 11 June, 2004 4:08 PM

I don't know that this Warren was trolling.
Hey, he is a new blogger.
We've all been there.
He is looking for links etc. and he got some.
Darren showed grace, and hopefully Warren will be able to learn to link up without the name calling.
He strikes me as not only new but shy.
Blog on!

Bene Diction » 11 June, 2004 6:16 PM

Alex: Darren is in Melbourne, which is in Australia, and Sydney is also in Australia. What "overseas trip" are you talking about?? Please don't assume everybody lives in the US -- the world is bigger than that, you know!

Darren: On a closer reading, Warren didn't exactly accuse you of being slimy. He said you might be slimy. He wasn't sure. It might be semantics, but as a writer I'm particular about trying to say exactly what I mean. I hope you and he will be able to iron out the misunderstandings and differences eventually :)

His comments suggest that he didn't have a good understanding of the way your ad service provider works -- ie. he thought you personally placed that ad in question on the site, and picked it out, or at least okayed it. Now that he knows it is all automated, and that you have taken steps to prevent this from happening again, perhaps the issue can be put to rest.

As for earning income, I know the Real Live Preacher does web design, and Kevin used to do both web hosting & web design. But that takes time, some might say time away from "ministry". Ads on the site don't take time. I'm not even sure what I'm getting at, except that I suppose when a pastor considers ways to earn income, he also needs to consider how time-consuming these will be and whether the time spent for these will eat too much into his time for family, ministry, personal relationship with God, and relaxation. All the rest of us have to manage the same balance but because a pastor is called to pastor the church, his balancing act gets a bit more difficult when he takes an outside job. We give most of our time to our jobs but arguably a pastor should give most of his time to pastoring coz that's sort of his "real" job :) -- so it is a bit of a dilemma.

irene » 11 June, 2004 7:37 PM

Can't agree with what Warren wrote, especially the 'slimy' barb, but he is new. Maybe he'll learn.

It is a tad galling that there's a a patronising little diatribe on the site about 'What Makes Bad Web Design'. It's ironic that the link to the page is broken, and is underneath a heading-level typing mistake.

Yeah, I'm being petty. But only because I know Darren won't stoop to it. :-)

Dave » 12 June, 2004 2:20 AM

Don't worry about those who refuse to think before they speak. Or post in this case. I've recently started reading your blog and find no truth in Warren's comments. I've checked out his site and probably will not return to it.

Like most of us, I have limited time and read those who enhance my life. Keep up the good work!

Darren Davenport » 12 June, 2004 6:43 AM

God does provide for those in ministry. I'd suggest those website ads are part of His provision.

Martin Roth » 12 June, 2004 8:49 PM

This issue has been weighing on my heart since late last night and continues today - extending grace to others that God extends to me. When I logged in this afternoon, I have a message from Irene touching on the same thing - we need God's grace, and that's why we need to extend grace to others. I'm convicted.

Darren, I apologize for the hurt my comments and posts have caused you. I definitely should have pursued this in a different manner and given you and I proper time to discuss this in private before making any opinion public.

From my heart I am truly sorry for what I have done and will strive in the future to not let it happen again.

Warren » 13 June, 2004 6:21 AM

Good on you Warren. We all live and learn.
Welcome to the blogosphere.

saint » 14 June, 2004 2:17 PM

I'm new to this blogging world. It's the open and honest conversations like this that attracted me in the first place. Your site is excellent and your ministry seems most wonderful!!

Deb » 18 June, 2004 3:55 AM

Email this entry to a friend:

Friend's email:

Your email:

Message (optional):