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National Society of American Homophobes and Islamophobes

22 June, 2003 8:17 PM

I'm unsure whether to post this or not as I think it was written purely to cause a bunfight however this Post disturbs me - (but what's new!?) - Pieter has posted that he is the "Founder/Charter member of the National Society of American Homophobes and Islamophobes."

In comments he says he fears the actions of militant homosexuals and believes that terrorism is the logical result of being a Muslim.

I'm shocked that someone claiming to follow Christ, who ate (and therefore entered into relationships) with sinners and outcasts could make a statement which will only ever put a barrier between him and people who are already ostracized enough by the church.

I don't remember Jesus starting a taxcollecteraphobe or a romancenturianaphobe society. I saw him connect with these people with respect and the intention of building relationships.

Are we not called to engage with people on the fringe of society? How will starting a club for homophobes and Islamophobes help us in our disciple making call?

UPDATE: Peiter has withdrawn his latest post saying it was just 'tounge in cheek'. As Regan says in comments as Christians we should consider the type of 'jokes' we make - especially on the net where our words can be misinterpreted and do more damage than they get 'laughs'.

UPDATE II: Not so sure he's sorry about the post unfortunately as his very next one seems to be heading on the same theme. "What would happen if Spiderman converted to Islam?"

Here's a question - "What would happen if rather than asking questions that will only provoke anger, disrespect and the breakdown of relationships - people asking such questions actually decided to build relationships with and love Muslim people for who they are?"



Darren, I'm still trying to figure out what to say about the post to which you linked.

I find the idea truly frightening.

Richard » 22 June, 2003 11:12 PM

The kid needs a spankin'. :)

Laura » 22 June, 2003 11:55 PM

I knew everything when I was 17 too! (But my mother saw her role as reminding me occasionally that I didn't)

Richard Hall » 23 June, 2003 12:19 AM

How is being a militant Christian different from being a militant Muslim or a militant homosexual??? *sigh*

irene » 23 June, 2003 1:03 AM

Hi Darren!

I like Pieter very much, but I have to agree with you that this is over the top, even if, as I suspect, it's said tongue-in-cheek.

Homosexuals, of all demographics in America, are the most in need of God's grace, and the least likely (except perhaps Muslims ) to be reached out to by Christians. Gay people have enormously high rates of suicide, alcoholism, abuse, depression and ill health. This in addition to the fact that many of them live with a death sentence. Yet the very source of hope that any of them might turn to, the Church, instead often treats them as if they've committed the unpardonable sin.

Does this imply a blurring of the sinfulness of the lifestyle? Of course not. But we aren't called to berate sinners, we're called to preach grace and repentance from sin.

I'm a Calvinist. I serve a powerful and holy God who is stronger than any sin. God is more powerful than homosexuality, and I trust in the power of His grace.

As for Muslims, I just sat next to one in church today. He said his first prayer to the God of the Bible on Thusday in my living room. Tomorrow I'm meeting him at the university, and he's considering introducing me to his Muslim roommate, at possible risk to his life when he returns to Iran. I'm not saying this to be self-righteous, but rather to remind all of us that Muslims aren't the enemy. They are sinners in need of a Savior.

I support the war on terrorism. I believe that Islam is a hateful, blasphemous religion and a tool of the devil to blind about 1,2 billion people. But those in bondage to this religion need compassion, not phobia.

Just my deux centimes...

Soli Deo Gloria,
Your friendly neigborhood Discoshaman

Discoshaman » 23 June, 2003 1:04 AM

Thank you, Discoshaman. Please view the post again. I have replaced.

Pieter Friedrich » 23 June, 2003 1:43 AM

I have replaced *it.

Pieter Friedrich » 23 June, 2003 1:44 AM

Why is it that 'christians' joke about the most stupidest of things. Yesterday, while visiting our old 'church', an old guy came up to us during the 'offering' and waved the bags in our face laughing and telling us to empty our pockets. Oh, Ha Ha... I smiled. Not because I though he was funny, but because I was thinking how much I want to stick my hand in pocket and pull out a raised finger.

'christians', for whatever reason, seem to enjoy making a mockery out of the very things that Christ made strong points about. He told us to love our neighbor. To live a life of sacrifice. To not be hung up on money. Yet, these are the things that seem to be the butt of every 'christian' joke.

Maybe it's just our television based culture where the only things that are funny and worthy of laughing at are based around lies. These same stories are then told in sermons whose only point these days seems to entertain a congregation and make sure they aren't bored for an hour on Sunday morning.

I blame the pastors of this world for statements like the one originally made by Pieter. If all young people are taught is that true 'christianity' should be entertaining and funny and therefore use stories full of lies then why should we be shocked when we see this kind of thing? We've initiated it. We've accepted it.

Until the 'church' can get past it's failure to teach Christ, stories like the one that bought on this conversation aren't going to get any less.

Regan » 23 June, 2003 9:00 AM

Well said, regan.

Mike » 23 June, 2003 9:07 AM

Actually, I attend a Presbyterian church (in the R.C.U.S. denomination) that's fairly solemn and doesn't tend to joke much, if at all, about the things of Christ.

Pieter Friedrich » 23 June, 2003 9:18 AM

Yet you yourself do/did, Pieter. Where does that come from then in your case, if not from your church? If they aren't teaching you to joke about things that would no doubt upset Christ, from where does your sense of humor in such things come from? Do you attend youth rallies? Maybe your church doesn't joke aobut this kind of thing, but maybe it only happens in your youth group? Or are you a recluse and you managed to come up with this all by yourself without any exterior involvement.

What ever the case may be, I expect that you've heard others joking about similar types of things. Whether it be racial, religious, fashion, who knows, but it's that part of 'christian' culture that is being breed and taught, even if not just from the pulpit.

Regan » 23 June, 2003 9:32 AM

I think the problem is that you've left your WackoAttracter on... Go into Tools, Internet Options...and on the Connections tab, there's a WackoAttracter box which if selected means you will receive all manner of unwanted attention from naive, bigots, who are really only scared about losing their tenuous grip over the control that they perceive to have over their circumstances. In their state of confusion they tend to lash out at others. Just un-tick the box and you should be fine!

Luke » 23 June, 2003 9:41 AM

No, Regan, I don't attend youth rallies or a youth group. I am heavily involved in political activites and in pro-life outreach, but joking about things like that which I joked about does not surface at such activities.

I have, on occasion, joked about things like this within my close circle of friends. I do not think it is improper to joke about such things...but jokes like that really ought to remain within a closed circle, and should not be published on the web. That was one of the main things I am to be faulted for...bringing the world in on a joke of that sort.

The reason I believe joking like that is acceptable inside closed groups is because the closed groups I frequent are Christian groups, all of whose members have already accepted Christ and are walking with Christ. The only reason joking like that outside the circle is wrong, I believe, is because it is a self-imposed barrier to Christian ministry.

Pieter Friedrich » 23 June, 2003 11:03 AM

The reason I was sorry about the homophobes post is that it was misinterpreted as being meant seriously. I am also sorry for the things I said in response to the criticism over that post. I am not so much sorry for the post itself.

It was my anger at being charged with being a homosexual that caused me to defend the homophobe post as serious, and to say things I now regret.

As for the Spiderman post...well, we've already discussed that.

Pieter Friedrich » 23 June, 2003 12:15 PM

So it's ok to treat the sin of another as a joke as long as it's in the circle of christian friends? Yep.. that sounds about right! I believe they call that gossip.

If 'christians' stopped wasting their time laughing at the sin of those who don't know Christ and got on with the job of Loving them, maybe more people would take us seriously.

While we mock the sinner and their sin, we fail to extend the same Grace that God extended to us through Christ. In doing so, how dare we call ourselves His disciples.

Regan » 23 June, 2003 12:23 PM

What, in your opinion, Regan, is appropriate humor?

Pieter Friedrich » 23 June, 2003 12:25 PM

What: Taking the piss out of 'christians'.
When: Any opportune time!
Why: Because in their own self-righteous little worlds where 'they' have the answer, they fail to live out the words that Christ taught, instead making fun of others who "don't" have the answer or who haven't found it yet.

All I can say is "Thank God He doesn't need 'christians' to save the world". We'd all be buggered if that were the case.

Now 'that' is funny...

Regan » 23 June, 2003 12:38 PM

I find that post most humorous, Regan. I just love how you're all about taking the 'piss' out of other Christians eyes, but you fail to see the sea in your own.


ryan » 23 June, 2003 12:51 PM

Would you like to divulge a little further ryan?

Regan » 23 June, 2003 1:17 PM

So you like to admonish me for innocent and humorous comments about Islam by biting my head off for it? Can you explain to me how it is Christian for you to bite my head off over an innocent remark, but it's wrong for me to make an innocent remark?

Why are you so worried that I might offend Muslims and yet not worried at all that you might offend me?

Pieter Friedrich » 23 June, 2003 1:41 PM

Christ cared nothing for offending the religious parasites that infested the place yet cared tremendously for the sinner and those who were lost. Christ had such compassion for these people yet I'm expected to tolerate and ignore 'christians' who execute their self-righteous admonishing of them? Please.. give me a break.

I will stand with a sinner any day over a 'christian' who will point the finger and label them an outcast and anyone who gets offended by that can point the finger at me as well. I couldn't care less. Christ called us to love and it was about time 'christians' started doing it to the world rather than patting themselves on the back and pretending that they are.

Regan » 23 June, 2003 2:18 PM

Pieter -

While I disagree very strongly with your stance on these issues, may I commend you at the graciousness with which you are conducting yourself.


Lisa » 23 June, 2003 3:25 PM


Supposedly, you are full of love.

Instead of asking Peter why he did what he did, you thought it better, and more "loving", to just outright lambaste him? Does that make sense according to the "love" you speak of?

Christ, who was persecuted till death, loved his disciples whom he often rebuked. Now, I'm not Christ, not by a long shot, and certainly don't have the gift of omniscience. I can't see the intentions or heart of a person I have a grievance against, so my ability to "judge" is limited. When I have a grievance against my brother/sister, I'm instructed to go to him/her in "love" and state my grievance. Then, if they persist, I bring another with me, and state my grievance again. Then I bring it to the assembly of believers, and have the issue sorted out there.

There�s a theme here that God is trying to build, and that is forgiveness and reconciliation. Every effort is to be made to handle a dispute by first approaching each other in love, communicating, reconciling, and remaining in unity.

Now, I don't agree with how Pieter might have presented his thoughts, but until I know more of Peter, I'll reserve any judgements I might have. I might remind him, with respect, that Muslims are in need of Christ just as much as we are... but I think he already stated his case and position, so this would be redundant.

ryan » 24 June, 2003 3:17 AM

Let me add an addendum to the post above.

Both Muslims and Homosexuals are in need of a Saviour, just like all of us who were once without Christ.

ryan » 24 June, 2003 3:41 AM

Well gentlemen that was charming. Who won?
Is there anyone left standing or can we ask Richard's mom to come in and have a word with all of you?

Bene Diction » 24 June, 2003 11:28 PM

How is being a militant Christian different from being a militant Muslim or a militant homosexual??? *sigh*
Posted by: irene at June 23, 2003 01:03 AM

Absolutely nothing. That's the point. ;-)

Chris A. » 25 June, 2003 4:44 AM

Ryan, 'christians' are so lame in expecting to be treated with 'love' and yet feel they don't need to show it to those who really need it. When one of their own address their lack of Christ-likeness after a reasonable discussion, they are turned on as being no better at showing love the one originally accused. The only difference should be that the 'christian' should be able to do two things. 1) Seriously ask God to show them if the accusations have any merit. And 2) Forgive any person who accuses them of anything unmerited.

As far as I am concerned, 'christians' don't like being rebuked and will always try to turn the argument against the other person in order to justify their own original actions. I make no apologies for saying how I feel about 'christians' who label and write off those who haven't experienced the love of Christ. If you think for one moment that it's not in love, then maybe you need to understand the word. Does love need to be tough? Does love need to hurt sometimes? It sure does! But it also forgives, supports and doesn't turn it's back. It always prevails and is full of hope.

If you are only prepared to see the side of love that isn't afraid to tell it like it is and then acuse me of not truly loving then once again I am not surprised. 'christians' tend to get shellshocked so easily and don't know how to deal with stuff. Well.. I say deal with it.

Regan » 25 June, 2003 8:13 AM

In all fairness, Regan, I understand your frustration with Christians in general. I understand your frustration with hypocritical Christians in particular. The reason I think the reason you strike people as strident, however, is because you often give the impression that you have turned your back on Christians, instead of 'persisting in love' as you put it.

I know where you're coming from, and yes, love does need to be tough at times, but remember to persist in love - for fundamentalist right-wing Americans as well as for the rest of the world.

And accept an apology where you find one.

- John.

John Adams » 25 June, 2003 10:13 AM


» 19 September, 2004 12:19 PM

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